AR banner
Search Tips Advanced Search
Back to Top

• Kracker Archive
• Allied Losses
• Archiwum Polish
• Paradie Canadian
• Searchable Lists

Info LogoAdd to or correct this story with a few clicks.
Archive Report: Allied Forces

Compiled from official National Archive and Service sources, contemporary press reports, personal logbooks, diaries and correspondence, reference books, other sources, and interviews.
Check our Research databases: Database List


We seek additional information and photographs. Please contact us via the Helpdesk.

RAF Crest
21.05.1943 No.1 Torpedo Training Unit (TTU) Wellington LB237 Flt Sgt. John F. Forsyth-Johnson

Operation: Training / Rescue

Date: 21st May 1943 (Friday)

Unit: No. 1 Torpedo Training Unit (TTU), Coastal Command

Type: Wellington

Serial: LB237

Code: TU:?

Base: RAF Turnberry, Ayreshire, Scotland

Location: Inner Seas, ENE of Ailsa Craig

Pilot: Flt Sgt. John Frederick Forsyth-Johnson 1383232 RAFVR Age 20. Missing believed killed (1)

Obs: Sgt. William Victor Chambers 1384655 RAFVR Age 22. Missing believed killed

WOp/Air Gnr: Sgt. Cyril Jones 980210 RAFVR Age 23. Missing believed killed

WOp/Air Gnr: Sgt. Thomas Brian Clarke 1236744 RAFVR Age? Missing believed killed

WOp/Air Gnr: Sgt. Harry Hubert Charles Harris 1377270 RAFVR Age 21. Missing believed killed

Air Gnr: Sgt. Bertram Harrington Lowe 658389 RAF Age 28. Missing believed killed


On 21st May 1943, a night-time exercise to practise the laying of sea-mines was undertaken carried by three aircraft; Hampden AT125 and two accompanying aircraft from No. 1 Torpedo Training Unit (TTU), Wellington VIIIs LB193 and LB237. The Hampden, for an unknown reason, ditched into the sea and the two Wellingtons immediately engaged in a search flying low over the water with their lights on. It is presumed that the two aircraft collided, and crashed into the sea 3½ miles ENE of Ailsa Craig, Firth of Clyde. Only seven men were recovered alive from a total of eighteen aboard the three lost aircraft. All five aboard Wellington LB237 were posted as "missing believed killed" . (Brian Bouchard & Roger Morgan - Epsom and Ewell History Explorer website).
We have been contacted by Tony Lawrence, the son of Sgt. Sydney Lawrence from LB193 and in researching the crews of the aircraft reported to have been involved in this training mission some unresolved discrepancies have been found. The research has determined the following information:

Hampden I AT125, from No 1. TTU:
The crew for a Hampden would normally comprise four. However only the following three have been identified for AT125:
Pilot: Sgt. Ronald Stott Cordingley 11479676 RAFVR - killed
Obs: Sgt. Eric Vevers 1149764 RAFVR - Missing believed - Killed
WOp/Air Gnr: Flt Sgt. John Bertram Reid R114641 RCAF - Missing believed killed

Furthermore their CWGC details recorded that they perished on the 18th April 1943. Other anecdotal information claimed that AT125 collided with Wellington LB237 over the Firth of Clyde on this date. Research to date has not been able to resolve the discrepancies regarding dates and the claimed collision between AT125 and Wellington LB237.

The crew aboard Wellington VIII, LB193 has been determined to be:
Pilot: Fg Off. Peter R. Griffin 116787 RAFVR - Survived
2nd Pilot: Fg Off. Frederick I. Thompson 1221825 RAFVR - Survived
Bomb Aimer Plt Off Kenneth Holden 129178 RAFVR - Survived
WOp/Air Gnr: Sgt Sydney Lawrence 1091215 RAFVR - Survived
WOp/Air Gnr: Sgt. Ronald Dean 1087504 RAFVR - Killed
WOp/Air Gnr: Sgt Leslie Trevethan Gibson 1091023 RAFVR - Killed

Additionally there appears that two further airmen were aboard one or the other Wellington but it has not been possible to resolve which aircraft.
Sgt. Alfred Brown 1039746 RAFVR - Missing believed killed
Sgt. Edwin Esau 1393290 RAFVR - Missing believed killed

Another piece of information from Sgt. Sydney Lawrence’s log book for the 21st May 1943 (below) recorded that his Wellington took off at 02:20 hrs and crashed into the sea while searching for another aircraft an hour later. Sydney told his son, Tony, that they were flying really low and when they went into a turn the wing tip caught in the sea and caused the aircraft to cartwheel into the sea. He never mentioned hitting another aircraft.

Above: Extract from Sgt. Lawrence's Log Book for the day/flight in question (Courtesy of Tony Lawrence)

(1) Flt Sgt. John Frederick Forsyth-Johnson was the brother of the entertainer, the late Sir Bruce Forsyth. Sir Bruce wrote about this in his autobiography:

“When war broke out my older brother John was determined to become a pilot, and in early 1941, as soon as he turned 18, he volunteered for the RAF. I will never forget the day when the awful tragedy struck. Friday 21st May 1943, St Neots near Bedford. I am 15 years old and it’s the start of a free weekend from touring US military bases with a cabaret show. We’ve decided to enjoy the early summer weather. Someone suggests rounders.

I trip on the uneven ground and fall heavily on my hand, jamming my finger back at an unnatural angle. It hurts like hell and I feel sick. My friends gather round. ‘Bruce, are you all right? You look terrible. You’d better lie down.’ I’m feeling dizzy, nauseous, disorientated...

Left: Sir Bruce Forsyth (courtesy BBC)

Suddenly I’m in a plane, flying over the sea. No, not flying. I’m plummeting downwards, out of control, at an acute angle. There’s nothing I can do. I stagger towards the open door of the aircraft as the dark water rushes towards me. I jump... A strange and unpleasant dream as I drift in and out of consciousness, obviously. What makes it particularly disturbing, however, is that I’ve never been in an aeroplane.

I gave no further thought to that horrible vision until I returned home the following day to visit my parents. Normally my mother would call out cheerfully the moment I walked through the front door. Not this time. I found her sitting in her chair, gazing into space. ‘What’s up, Mum?’ That was when she told me that John – by then an RAF pilot – had been posted as missing.

It wasn’t until many years later, after my parents had passed away, that I received a letter and documentation explaining what had happened to John in the Turnberry area of Scotland that night. They were practising laying sea mines and one of the Wellington planes ditched in the drink. John’s plane, plus another, went back to help in the search and rescue. With their lights on, flying just above the water in an attempt to spot survivors, these two Wellingtons collided. Of the 18 men from the three aircraft that crashed, only seven were picked up. John was not one of them.

We went on to enjoy happy times as a family after his death, but never for a moment forgot about John”.

Burial details:

Flt Sgt. John Frederick Forsyth-Johnson. Runnymede Memorial. Panel 136. Born on the 24th November 1922 in Edmonton, Middlesex. Son of John Thomas and Florence Ada (née Pocknell) Forsyth-Johnson from Edmonton, Middlesex, England.

Sgt. William Victor Chambers. Runnymede Memorial. Panel 145. Born in April 1921 in Islington, Middlesex. Son of Ernest John and Lilian (née Clarke) Chambers from Islington, Middlesex, England.

Above: Sgt. Cyril Jones (Courtesy: Danielle Maxted)

Sgt. Cyril Jones. Runnymede Memorial. Panel 155. Born in 1920. Son of Jonathan and Mary Jane Jones; husband of Bettine Eluned Jones, of Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales.

Sgt. Thomas Brian Clarke. Runnymede Memorial. Panel 145. From Rhostyllen, Wrexham, Denbighshire. No further details - are you able to assist?

Sgt. Harry Hubert Charles Harris. Born in 1912, Dunure Cemetery Section E (Blue) Grave 183, Son of Percy and Florence Harris. Husband to Nell Doris Harris of South Kensington, London.

Sgt. Bertram Harrington Lowe. Runnymede Memorial. Panel 157. Son of Bertram and Florence Mary Lowe, of Ewell, Surrey, England. The marriage of Bertram Lowe to Florence Mary Harrington was registered in West Ham for the September Quarter of 1913. Birth of their son Bertram H. Lowe came to be recorded ion the same District 3/1916. By 1939, the Lowes had taken up residence at 47 Thorndon Gardens, Worcester Park, Ewell. Betram, senior, was then described as a Solicitors Managing Clerk / Estate Agent, born 23rd October 1889. His son, Bertram H, born 16th December 1915, had started work as an Estate Agent's Manager. Bertram, junior, enlisted with the Royal Artillery before being transferred into the Royal Air Force

For further details our thanks to the great people on the RAF Commands Forum also to Brian Bouchards for information on Sgt. Lowe. Thanks to Danielle Maxted, the great granddaughter of Sgt. Jones, for the photographs. Thanks to Tony Lawrence informing us of his father's involvement in this tragedy, log book entries and for prompting further research (Mar 2021). Addition of Sgt. Harris, who has been recorded to have been aboard LB237 (Mar 2021).

RS 01.03.2021 - Update to include new researched information

Pages of Outstanding Interest
History Airborne Forces •  Soviet Night Witches •  Bomber Command Memories •  Abbreviations •  Gardening Codenames
CWGC: Your Relative's Grave Explained •  USA Flygirls •  Axis Awards Descriptions •  'Lack Of Moral Fibre'
Concept of Colonial Discrimination  •  Unauthorised First Long Range Mustang Attack
RAAF Bomb Aimer Evades with Maquis •  SOE Heroine Nancy Wake •  Fane: Motor Racing PRU Legend
Sources used by us in compiling Archive Reports include: Bill Chorley - 'Bomber Command Losses Vols. 1-9, plus ongoing revisions', Dr. Theo E.W. Boiten and Mr. Roderick J. Mackenzie - 'Nightfighter War Diaries Vols. 1 and 2', Martin Middlebrook and Chris Everitt - 'Bomber Command War Diaries', Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Tom Kracker - Kracker Luftwaffe Archives, Michel Beckers, Major Fred Paradie (RCAF) and MWO François Dutil (RCAF) - Paradie Archive (on this site), Jean Schadskaje, Major Jack O'Connor USAF (Retd.), Robert Gretzyngier, Wojtek Matusiak, Waldemar Wójcik and Józef Zieliński - 'Ku Czci Połeglyçh Lotnikow 1939-1945', Archiwum - Polish Air Force Archive (on this site), Anna Krzystek, Tadeusz Krzystek - 'Polskie Siły Powietrzne w Wielkiej Brytanii', Franek Grabowski, Norman L.R. Franks 'Fighter Command Losses', Stan D. Bishop, John A. Hey MBE, Gerrie Franken and Maco Cillessen - Losses of the US 8th and 9th Air Forces, Vols 1-6, Dr. Theo E.W. Boiton - Nachtjagd Combat Archives, Vols 1-13. Aircrew Remembered Databases and our own archives. We are grateful for the support and encouragement of CWGC, UK Imperial War Museum, Australian War Memorial, Australian National Archives, New Zealand National Archives, UK National Archives and Fold3 and countless dedicated friends and researchers across the world.
Click any image to enlarge it

Click to add your info via ticket on Helpdesk •Click to let us know via ticket on Helpdesk• Click to buy research books from Amazon •Click to explore the entire site
If you would like to comment on this page, please do so via our Helpdesk. Use the Submit a Ticket option to send your comments. After review, our Editors will publish your comment below with your first name, but not your email address.

A word from the Editor: your contribution is important. We welcome your comments and information. Thanks in advance.

At the going down of the sun, and in the morning we will remember them. - Laurence Binyon
All site material (except as noted elsewhere) is owned or managed by Aircrew Remembered and should not be used without prior permission.
© Aircrew Remembered 2012 - 2024
Last Modified: 05 October 2021, 05:16

Monitor Additions/Changes?Click to be informed of changes to this page. Create account for first monitor only, thereafter very fast. Click to close without creating monitor